Larry Edell Craps
You Can Win at California Craps book. Read reviews from world’s largest community for readers. You will learn seven things form this book - (1) How you c. Most place bettors seem confident that the best place bet is the 6 or 8. This bet pays 7:6, that is when you bet $30, you'll Larry Edell has been the editor of 'The Crapshooter Newsletter' since 1994.
The Crapshooter© 2000 by Larry Edell Many Crapshooters approach each bet as a singular objective and fail to see the whole game as one money-making goal. If you have been betting each wager unrelated to your previous bets, then perhaps you should take. (read more) How to Win a Craps. We'll also send info on our books 'Make Your Living Playing Craps' and, 'Tina Trapp's Guide to Craps', as well as a free catalog, and a special free offer! Purchase Larry's book, 'Make Your Living Playing Craps' available online here. An all free site devoted to the game of Craps. Craps systems, strategies, message board and more. Visit his site at Thecrapshooter.com. Come Out No 4 & 10. Bet only on Come out.
Most place bettors seem confident that the best place bet is the 6 or 8.
This bet pays 7:6, that is when you bet $30, you'llLarry Edell has been the editor of 'The Crapshooter Newsletter' since 1994. He has published nine books and over two hundred different articles in magazines such as 'Casino Player', 'Gaming Today', 'Mid West Players 'and 'Gambling Times'. Larry's website is www.thecrapshooter.com win $35.
Some people place bet both numbers together, increasing their chances of winning, but at the same time, exposing their money to more risk. If the seven rolls, you're out $60 (2 x $30), which means you have to win twice more just to get ahead.
The seven should roll six times in 36 rolls, and the combination of the 6 and 8 should roll ten times (five times each). So, in 36 rolls, you should win 10 times (at $35) and lose six times (at $60). This turns out to be a net loss of $10 ($350-$360).
Not too bad, really, considering all the comps you'll be getting while you're playing the sixes and eights. But are there any other numbers that we can bet on which could provide even a more profitable win than the six and eight?
Wanna know the secret that craps pros use to get better odds than the 6 and 8 offers? Let's find out.
In 36 rolls, the four and ten combination should roll six times (three each), the same amount as the seven. By betting $25 on both the four and ten, you should win six times (6 x $45) and lose six times (6 x $50), resulting in a net loss of $30 ($270-$300).
However, there are some special circumstances surrounding these numbers.
The four and ten can be bought for a 5% commission. In addition, some casinos only charge this 'vig' if you win. And finally, that 5% commission is usually only $1 on a $25 bet (instead of $1.25) to obtain true odds, or 2:1 (instead of 9:5) for your bets.
This means that if you buy the four and ten and win either number, you'll get $50 (at 2:1) instead of $45 (at 9:5).
As previously mentioned, by placing the 6 & 8 you might lose $10 in 36 rolls. By buying the 4 & 10, you should win six times if either the four or ten hit, at 2:1 odds (6 x $50 = $300). You might also lose six times if the seven rolls, losing both of your bets (6 x $50 = $300), resulting in an exactly even proposition, not counting the vigs.
If you play in a casino that only collects the vigs when you win, you'll only lose $6 in vigs for six wins, which is $4 less than you'd lose by placing the six or eight.
And by buying both the four and ten, you'll get higher comps, and have a slightly lower risk.
And now an even larger difference between the 4 & 10 and the 6 & 8 becomes evident.
If you place the 6 & 8 for $30 each and lose (2 x $30 = $60), you'll need to win twice more just to get ahead (2 x $35 = $70, at 7:6).
However, if you buy the 4 & 10 for $25 each and lose (2 x $25 = $50), you'll need to win just once more (2 x $25 = $50, at 2:1) to break even!
More and more crapshooters are trying this play, especially in casinos that only charge the vig on winning bets. So, the next time you think of placing the 6 and 8, try buying the 4 and 10 instead!
Pssst...! Now you know the secrets of betting on the 4's and 10s!
- Appendices
- Craps Analysis
- Miscellaneous
Introduction
One of the most frequently asked questions I get, and certainly the most frequent about craps, is whether dice setting is for real. Publicly until now I said I never saw enough evidence either way and had no position. Privately I was more skeptical. However in May 2004 Stanford Wong, whom I have enormous respect for, attended a 4-day seminar on dice setting and as a result reversed his position and gave what I think could be said is an endorsement. Shortly afterward I saw him at a social function and asked him about it. He obviously did believe that some people can influence the dice but that is was very difficult and something few have mastered.
Wong's comments inspired me to take dice setting more seriously. I had previously been in communication with Frank Scoblete and Larry Edell on the subject, suggesting that I be allowed to observe some top dice setters for myself. Both were agreeable but due to scheduling problems nothing ever came of it. Until recently I also lived within about one mile of dice coach Beau Parker so there was no good reason to keep avoiding the experiment. So after playing phone tag we finally met on July 22 with three other dice setters at the Bellagio.
Before starting Beau explained that dice setters are not able to control every single throw but only influence the dice towards certain numbers. At a 3-4-5x odds table the house edge is only 0.374% so it only takes a slight influence of the dice to overcome that house advantage. However a slight influence could take thousands of rolls to become obvious over the normal randomness of the game. So we both agreed one session was unlikely to prove anything.
As I emphasize on the topic of Internet casino cheating the proper way to make a case for a non-random game is to set up a hypothesis first, then gather data, and then statistically test the data for how well it fits the hypothesis. So I asked Beau what I should be testing for. He said on the come out roll that I should test for winning rolls of 7 and 11, and on all other rolls to test for rolling anything except a 7. Following are the specific results. Each come out roll begins a line.
Larry Edell Craps Player
Parker Experiment Results
| Date | Casino | Shooter | Rolls |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Beau | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Beau | 2 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Beau | 6,8,6 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Beau | 8,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Debbie | 11 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Debbie | 2 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Debbie | 6,10,5,9,3,3,12,5,9,5,8,6 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Debbie | 11 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Debbie | 10,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Pablo | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Pablo | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Pablo | 5,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Michael | 10,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Beau | 4,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Debbie | 6,3,4,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Pablo | 9,2,4,6,8,4,2,10,5,8,5,5,11,8,6,2,8,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Michael | 11 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Michael | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Bellagio | Michael | 4,6,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Beau | 6,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 8,11,6,6,9,4,10,6,6,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Michael | 6,6 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Michael | 5,4,5 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Michael | 4,5,12,4 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Michael | 9,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Beau | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Beau | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Beau | 9,6,5,8,9 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Beau | 6,11,4,3,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 5,6,3,11,6,6,5 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 12 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 11 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 5,9,8,4,8,11,5 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Debbie | 6,7 |
| July 22, 2004 | Westin | Michael | 10,7 |
The next table summarizes the results. The sample size is too small to perform any robust tests. However just an eyeball test shows the results are thus far close to expectations in a random game. So clearly more testing needs to be done, and is planned for.
Parker Experiment Summary
| Event | Number |
| Come out rolls | 37 |
| Come out wins (7 or 11) | 11 |
| Expected come out wins (7 or 11) | 8.22 |
| Non-come out rolls | 79 |
| Non-come out win (non-7) | 65 |
| Expected non-come out win (non-7) | 65.83 |
Stanford Wong Experiment
In August 2004 debate was raging at Stanford Wong's site bj21.com about dice setting. The discussion could be found under the member's only Green Chip section on craps. A professional gambler there challenged Wong to a bet. The terms of the bet were whether precision shooters could roll fewer than 79.5 sevens in 500 rolls of the dice. The expected number in a random game would be 83.33. The probability of rolling 79 or fewer sevens in 500 random rolls is 32.66%.
I was asked to be a monitor for the event, but was out of the country at the time. However I did make an $1800 bet on the over with a well known gambling writer. The dates and locations of the event were kept very quiet, and were not being made available to the public. The shooters were Wong himself and someone known only as 'Little Joe.' According to Wong, the experiment went well and not one roll was called dead nor disputed by the two sides of the bet present at the event. The following table shows the results by shooter.
Wong Experiment Results
| Shooter | Total Rolls | Total Sevens | Percent Sevens |
| Wong | 278 | 45 | 16.19% |
| Little Joe | 222 | 29 | 13.06% |
| Total | 500 | 74 | 14.80% |
Congratulations to Wong on winning with five sevens to spare. The probability of rolling 74 or fewer sevens in 500 random rolls is 14.41%.
Larry Edell Craps Rules
Internal Links
- How the house edge for each bet is derived, in brief.
- The house edge of all the major bets on both a per-bet made and per-roll basis
- Dice Control Experiments. The results of two experiments on skillful dice throwing.
- Dice Control Advantage. The player advantage, assuming he can influence the dice.
- Craps variants. Alternative rules and bets such as the Fire Bet, Crapless Craps, and Card Craps.
- California craps. How craps is played in California using playing cards.
- Play Craps. Craps game using cards at the Viejas casino in San Diego.
- Number of Rolls Table. Probability of a shooter lasting 1 to 200 rolls before a seven-out.
- Ask the Wizard. See craps questions I've answered about:
- Simple Craps game. My simple Java craps game.
Larry Edell Craps
Written by: Michael Shackleford